Was the lack of competition at QB Rex's fault?

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

Its not hard to truly realize that in Rex's G&P offense there was never a need for a passing QB. His system isn't about throwing the ball its about running the clock and winning on D. He could have brought in Joe Namath as the backup it didn't really matter.

Sanchez is getting the full blame for a true deriliction of duty by our HC. He never allowed our QB or offense to be anything other than his G&P vision.

THANK YOU!!!!

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs

The Jets drafted him, they scouted him, worked him out have had him for a couple of years, believe in him. WTF are you talking about. You act like the Jets management including Rex don't have a clue when it comes to the draft and player talent.

Well run teams like the Giants draft their QB and invest in him by putting talent around him getting rid of the malcontents that are cancers in the locker. They don't panic when they know they have the goods.

Now if you want to make the argument that Tanny, Rex and Shotty had no clue in making the evoluation that would make sense. Defending Rex for not wasting time in the development of Sanchez when he believed in him is simply nonesense.

Wow someone GETS IT!!!!!!

[Kentucky Jet]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

Tannenbaum made the collosal blunder of trading picks for Tebow, paying him +$3 million, then cutting Drew Stanton...and also paying him his 2012 salary as a parting gift. Also could've drafted Russell Wilson, who Bradway was adamant about us taking.

Rex sucks as a coach but the QB situation was not his fault

Stanton asked to be traded or released.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet

Stanton asked to be traded or released.

Specifically because Tanny traded for Tebow.

[detjetsfan]

The lack of QB competition was Tim Tebow's fault. He was horrific in TC and preseason if you actually watched him play. Didn't help that he sucked running the wildcat.

[detjetsfan]

Originally Posted by jetsman51

Delusional. Mark, towards the end of the season especially, LOST games for this team. McElroy or Tebow did (Ari game for Greg) would have been better.

McElroy STUNK at home facing a crappy Chargers' defense. Granted he had the same God-Awful sh*tty receivers that couldn't get open that Sanchez had all year but still. Chargers stacked the box and dared him to try to complete downfield and he could not do it.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

McElroy STUNK at home facing a crappy Chargers' defense. Granted he had the same God-Awful sh*tty receivers that couldn't get open that Sanchez had all year but still. Chargers stacked the box and dared him to try to complete downfield and he could not do it.

Absolutely. McElroy was god awful and it made things rather evident for me. That was Mark Sanchez was the best QB we had. As much as it pains me to say that, it is the truth.

Rex Ryan was playing the guy that gave us the best chance to win. But what it also says is that the lack of talent on offense runs much deeper than even what we thought originally. It is a sad state of affairs for NYJ right now.

This is why I believe it is NECESSITY that we get another QB for this season. We will not stand a chance if we stick with what we have. We would essentially be 100% one dimensional without ANY passing attack whatsoever.

That would not be a product that any fan would be interested in watching.

[section314]

Originally Posted by detjetsfan

McElroy STUNK at home facing a crappy Chargers' defense. Granted he had the same God-Awful sh*tty receivers that couldn't get open that Sanchez had all year but still. Chargers stacked the box and dared him to try to complete downfield and he could not do it.

He was sacked 11, repeat, 11 times, and pressured many more. But God forbid the Jets draft any offensive lineman in the first round.....that would be "over-reaching."

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by section314

He was sacked 11, repeat, 11 times, and pressured many more. But God forbid the Jets draft any offensive lineman in the first round.....that would be "over-reaching."

I believe that any good FO always takes the BAP no matter where they are picking and no matter what their needs are.

If that player is a CENTER for crying out loud, then I think they should take that center or else find a trading partner and trade out of that spot.

My point is if the BAP happens to be an OL then I will be all for it. But more than ever NO projects on the first day. Vlad Ducasse was a PROJECT and look at what that got us. I want a guy who can come in and immediately help this team.

[Winstonbiggs]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

This post is complete nonsense and I have absolutely NO idea what you are trying to say.

And for that matter, if competition is irrelevant to the Jets problems at QB as you say it is, then I guess you must think John Idzik is a complete weirdo with no idea how to run a football team, right? I mean wasn't competition at every position, including QB one of the very first things he said?

I guess the last 20 years John Idzik spent learning the ins and outs of football hasn't taught him a thing, right?

What John Idzik said is proof positive that is the ONLY way to run a football team. And regardless of where you pick your QB, like any good football exec knows, you cover your bets. You place them in a competitive environment and make that pick work his A$$ off and EARN a spot.

Then, and only then, do the other players respect that player enough for things like chemistry and unity to be built.

What John Idzik says in my mind is he doesn't belive in Sanchez and is stuck with him because of his contract. He also probably understands that next year Sanchez will be the best QB on the roster.

It ain't proof positive of anything. To be clear these are my opinions and for you to call a statement proof positive is simply you using hyperbole to back up a baseless opinion. Proof positive

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs

What John Idzik says in my mind is he doesn't belive in Sanchez and is stuck with him because of his contract. He also probably understands that next year Sanchez will be the best QB on the roster.

It ain't proof positive of anything. To be clear these are my opinions and for you to call a statement proof positive is simply you using hyperbole to back up a baseless opinion. Proof positive

Once again NONSENSE. John Idzik said he will promote COMPETITION at every single position on the football field. That makes sense. Saying that a HC should simply assign some QB is ludicrous. That promotes nothing more than hate and discontent. Like I said, the players would then be thinking, How do I manage to kiss enough A$$ so that I can get top dollar from the team because it certainly isn't about playing the best on the football field.

Competition also goes to COMMON SENSE. When the best player is tabbed to start it means that the players also respect that person for having busted his A$$ and earned his starting spot, just like they did. It then leaves an environment where things like unity and chemistry can happen.

A prime example? Why not our very own MARK SANCHEZ. He has NEVER been challenged for his starting job. He was simply appointed to that spot. In return you had media reports questioning Mark Sanchez and saying that they did not respect him because he was never challenged like they were. Mark Sanchez has also been unable to produce any sort of chemistry or unity. The rest of the players view him as nothing more than a cake eater. A kid who ruins an otherwise good organization.

[JoePNYJ1]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I'm not so sure anymore. Tanny's interview on Fatty's show was very eye opening for me.

He took full responsibility for the teams woes and said he was the guy with final say on all players.

Mark Sanchez was never challenged in his career and IMO it has been part of the reason for a toxic lockerroom like so many fans have claimed.

Rex Ryan is also the kind of guy where if you were looking for answers to those kinds of questions you would never get an answer. Rex Ryan has some very good qualities. One of his best is his ability to always go TEAM. He never throws his players under the bus. Mark Sanchez was absolutely terrible last season. But you'd never know it if you were relying on Rex Ryan to tell things like they are. That is Rex Ryan protecting his players and shouldering the blame.

Those are rare qualities found in a HC. Besides Bill Parcells, I wonder if any other HC the Jets ever employed had as much character and honor.

My feeling is that this season is going to in stark contrast to Rex's first 4 seasons in NY. There will be straight up competition at almost every position on the field. I believe that will bring out the best in everyone and certainly end the lockerrom toxicity if there ever was any.

Good Post...But I have to disagree somewhat. He does "go TEAM" but it is to the extreme. As a head coach you need to realize that your team is playing terrible and be honest about the issues at hand. Rex was too lax in the lockerroom and as a result it turned into a circus that the media exploited.

Rex is also known for "beating the bush" so to speak. He tells half truths and never is totally honest. Thats what drives me crazy and if he is going to save his teetering job he is going to have to make that change in addition to proving to the fans that he understands the offensive side of the ball.

[Winstonbiggs]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

Once again NONSENSE. John Idzik said he will promote COMPETITION at every single position on the football field. That makes sense. Saying that a HC should simply assign some QB is ludicrous. That promotes nothing more than hate and discontent. Like I said, the players would then be thinking, How do I manage to kiss enough A$$ so that I can get top dollar from the team because it certainly isn't about playing the best on the football field.

Competition also goes to COMMON SENSE. When the best player is tabbed to start it means that the players also respect that person for having busted his A$$ and earned his starting spot, just like they did. It then leaves an environment where things like unity and chemistry can happen.

A prime example? Why not our very own MARK SANCHEZ. He has NEVER been challenged for his starting job. He was simply appointed to that spot. In return you had media reports questioning Mark Sanchez and saying that they did not respect him because he was never challenged like they were. Mark Sanchez has also been unable to produce any sort of chemistry or unity. The rest of the players view him as nothing more than a cake eater. A kid who ruins an otherwise good organization.

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Tom Brady, Rodgers, Joe Namath the list of great NFL QB's who were appointed starting QB is endless.

You think Sanchez sucks, I don't think he's very good. Competition isn't going to change that. Coaching and surrounding him with talent might. It might not but giving reps to anyone else isn't making him better on opening day in a new offensive system.

You want the guy out because you think he sucks. Not unreasonable. Stop hiding behind the notion that you think competition is going to make Mark Sanchez a better QB. It's pure nonesense.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by JoePNYJ1

Good Post...But I have to disagree somewhat. He does "go TEAM" but it is to the extreme. As a head coach you need to realize that your team is playing terrible and be honest about the issues at hand. Rex was too lax in the lockerroom and as a result it turned into a circus that the media exploited.

Rex is also known for "beating the bush" so to speak. He tells half truths and never is totally honest. Thats what drives me crazy and if he is going to save his teetering job he is going to have to make that change in addition to proving to the fans that he understands the offensive side of the ball.

I agree with this. Rex is so loyal, he takes it to the point where everyone views it as a fault. I know. I criticized him for it all season. But once you get thinking about it, you can see he was just trying to make the best situation out of a clearly bad situation. And to boot, no one was ever really going to believe it. They knew what their eyes told them.

But the fans eyes should have told them once McElroy got his chance that Rex was right all along. Rex knew that Mark Sanchez was the best QB that the Jets had. And why wouldn't he? He is the HC.

But what it also tells us is that our team is pathetically lacking talent. Probably worse than anyone could have imagined. It indicates that John Idzik's job should be all about repairing a rather "offensive" offense.

[56mehl56]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

There's no misconception, that is a fact. How many young QB's ever got as many luxuries to work with? The answer is none. He got the best of everything and he completely sh*t on everything he was given by horrible, ill advised, completely incompetent football.

.

Well just this past year , Luck, RGIII, Wilson for starters. In fact I'll contend that any rookie who's started since Sanchez came into the league played in an offense more progressive and more suited to the development of a QB than what Sanchez had.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

Very seldom utilized that he could really take advantage of the running game and OL? What about all of the play action passes Schotty would call for Sanchez? What about the roll outs he would call that Sanchez could take advantage of? What calling long balls for Sanchez in almost every single game in his rookie season? What about always putting a player in motion so Sanchez would have an easier time reading the defense? Need I go on?

Yes the roll outs one of Sanchez's strong points, mysteriously stopped after Rex complained about how Sanchez was not slding down and taking too many hits. You think that was a mandate from the coach - I do.

And those long balls , sure they must have thrown 1, 2 hell at best case 3 per game. Other teams are doing that in 1 series. And the player in motion was to create mismatches in blocking for the running game, they in no way where there to help Sanchez read a D.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

If that isn't putting Sanchez in position to take advantage of the offenses strengths then I don't what is and there certainly wasn't ANYTHING the CS could have done to help Sanchez.

No this CS wasted a golden opportunity to take advantage of a very potent running game and stellar Oline. This should have opened up the offense and made this a very dynamic and potent passing offense. Instead Rex chose to play it safe and run more - not to protect or coddle Sanchez and not because he didn't trust him , he was just so enamored that his G&P was working and felt a change wasn't necessary.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

Schotty opened up the offense in Sanchez's third season to be exact. Then, Sanchez (not Rex in case you didn't know) completely fell on his face and started heaving the worst prayer balls in the world. He was horribly inaccurate and would regularly throw into sometimes triple coverage. So, yes, Rex shut that down and rightfully so. Don't try to spin this and blame Rex.

The Jets opened the season throwing the ball more and Rex *****ed , things changed and he shut it down and tried to force G&P. Then things got much worse when Mangold got injured. The G&P was no longer effective and Sanchez was taking a beating watch the ( ravens/raiders/broncos) games. I truly believe he played injured from after that Ravens game but the Jets had no true backup - Brunell wasn't going to see the field not behind the newly porous Oline.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

And Sanchez had laughable weapons at best? Plaxico Burress, Santonio Holmes, Derrick Mason, Jeremy Kerley all say hello. TWO SB MVP's and you call them laughable at best? I think not.

Burress fresh off his prison stint was a shell of his former self, he was a redzone target and that's it. His route running(jogging) was atrocious and he too seemed highly uninterested. Holmes basically shut it down when he was constantly double covered and never got the ball in this high powered offense. Mason are you kidding me, Its like saying the Jets had a SB MVP Ronnie Lott at safety - yeah maybe 5 years too late, Mason was toast and surprisingly a malcontent to boot. And Kerley a rookie who flashed soem promise , but I guarantee did not keep any DC's awake at night. So yeah his weapons were laughable, to think otherwise in a severe overestimation of the teams talents.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

OK, so now Plaxico Burress is suddenly sh*tty route runner? Holmes became disinterested? They both became disinierested because SANCHEZ could not get them the ball. Sanchez was unable to build chemistry with any of them. Meanwhile, they both have resumes proving the chemistry that they had built with several QB's in the past and were clutch WR's in the biggest spots that this game has to offer. So I guess this is just a choice of believing two WR's with a proven past or some kid that never amounted to anything despite him being the golden boy in NY.

See response above

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I know. You want to believe his side because you are a JETS FAN. I am also, but far be it for me to not tell the truth whether that indicts the QB or not.

And I want to tell the truth whether it indicts the HC or not.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

Tanny treated him like solid gold just like the rest of the CS including Rex did. EVERYONE treated Sanchez like solid gold and he sh*t the bed in return. He was given multiple opportunities and he made the CS regret each and every one of them. Sanchez is garbage. Not to be confused with garbage even a homeless person would want to pick through.

I'm a Jets fan, I don't hate Rex and I don't love Sanchez in fact I've been critical of both and have praised both before here. Its just lately so many Jets fans want to spew this abject hate towards our starting QB and can't accept that the HC and CS have a large culpability in what you all percieve to be Sanchez's fault. When you start comparing players to homeless people and pure garbage you've lost your objectivity and have let the irrational hate cloud your judgment. Its not that bad , Sanchez will be here this year , if he plays poorly he'll be gone next year and then the lynch mob can adopt a new whipping boy.

[Vinny Testaverde's Niece]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

.

Well just this past year , Luck, RGIII, Wilson for starters. In fact I'll contend that any rookie who's started since Sanchez came into the league played in an offense more progressive and more suited to the development of a QB than what Sanchez had.


Yes the roll outs one of Sanchez's strong points, mysteriously stopped after Rex complained about how Sanchez was not slding down and taking too many hits. You think that was a mandate from the coach - I do.

And those long balls , sure they must have thrown 1, 2 hell at best case 3 per game. Other teams are doing that in 1 series. And the player in motion was to create mismatches in blocking for the running game, they in no way where there to help Sanchez read a D.

No this CS wasted a golden opportunity to take advantage of a very potent running game and stellar Oline. This should have opened up the offense and made this a very dynamic and potent passing offense. Instead Rex chose to play it safe and run more - not to protect or coddle Sanchez and not because he didn't trust him , he was just so enamored that his G&P was working and felt a change wasn't necessary.

The Jets opened the season throwing the ball more and Rex *****ed , things changed and he shut it down and tried to force G&P. Then things got much worse when Mangold got injured. The G&P was no longer effective and Sanchez was taking a beating watch the ( ravens/raiders/broncos) games. I truly believe he played injured from after that Ravens game but the Jets had no true backup - Brunell wasn't going to see the field not behind the newly porous Oline.

I'm just going to quote this for historical truth, details like this tend to get blurry with age. Especially the disaster of the O-line after Mangold got hurt and how Sanchez got beaten into the ground in those next three games. I think it was pretty apparent he was injured during the Ravens game as you say - he was never the same after that one. Mentally or physically.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by Winstonbiggs

Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Tom Brady, Rodgers, Joe Namath the list of great NFL QB's who were appointed starting QB is endless.

You think Sanchez sucks, I don't think he's very good. Competition isn't going to change that. Coaching and surrounding him with talent might. It might not but giving reps to anyone else isn't making him better on opening day in a new offensive system.

You want the guy out because you think he sucks. Not unreasonable. Stop hiding behind the notion that you think competition is going to make Mark Sanchez a better QB. It's pure nonesense.

I'm not hiding behind anything, competition IS and will always be the ONLY way to run a football franchise. If you were to poll all 32 HC's in the league I guarantee you they would all side with competition. It brings out the best in everyone and forces them to do everything possible to stay on top of their game. Rex was never provided any decent QB's to challenge Sanchez and what we have as an end result is a completely sh*tty QB that has done nothing but regress steadilly.

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by 56mehl56

.

Well just this past year , Luck, RGIII, Wilson for starters. In fact I'll contend that any rookie who's started since Sanchez came into the league played in an offense more progressive and more suited to the development of a QB than what Sanchez had.





Yes the roll outs one of Sanchez's strong points, mysteriously stopped after Rex complained about how Sanchez was not slding down and taking too many hits. You think that was a mandate from the coach - I do.

And those long balls , sure they must have thrown 1, 2 hell at best case 3 per game. Other teams are doing that in 1 series. And the player in motion was to create mismatches in blocking for the running game, they in no way where there to help Sanchez read a D.



No this CS wasted a golden opportunity to take advantage of a very potent running game and stellar Oline. This should have opened up the offense and made this a very dynamic and potent passing offense. Instead Rex chose to play it safe and run more - not to protect or coddle Sanchez and not because he didn't trust him , he was just so enamored that his G&P was working and felt a change wasn't necessary.






The Jets opened the season throwing the ball more and Rex *****ed , things changed and he shut it down and tried to force G&P. Then things got much worse when Mangold got injured. The G&P was no longer effective and Sanchez was taking a beating watch the ( ravens/raiders/broncos) games. I truly believe he played injured from after that Ravens game but the Jets had no true backup - Brunell wasn't going to see the field not behind the newly porous Oline.



Burress fresh off his prison stint was a shell of his former self, he was a redzone target and that's it. His route running(jogging) was atrocious and he too seemed highly uninterested. Holmes basically shut it down when he was constantly double covered and never got the ball in this high powered offense. Mason are you kidding me, Its like saying the Jets had a SB MVP Ronnie Lott at safety - yeah maybe 5 years too late, Mason was toast and surprisingly a malcontent to boot. And Kerley a rookie who flashed soem promise , but I guarantee did not keep any DC's awake at night. So yeah his weapons were laughable, to think otherwise in a severe overestimation of the teams talents.





See response above



And I want to tell the truth whether it indicts the HC or not.




I'm a Jets fan, I don't hate Rex and I don't love Sanchez in fact I've been critical of both and have praised both before here. Its just lately so many Jets fans want to spew this abject hate towards our starting QB and can't accept that the HC and CS have a large culpability in what you all percieve to be Sanchez's fault. When you start comparing players to homeless people and pure garbage you've lost your objectivity and have let the irrational hate cloud your judgment. Its not that bad , Sanchez will be here this year , if he plays poorly he'll be gone next year and then the lynch mob can adopt a new whipping boy.

Well, it's obvious that no matter how many facts I state you are going to spew it so you can believe your very obscure, rare belief about the Jets QB. Oh, poor victimized Sanchez. He's been treated just so badly. Does that about sum it up?

I've got news for you almost NO ONE agrees with you about this. They all think what I do. Sanchez was given more than enough chances. He sucks pure and simple and he deserves to be selling f*cking life insurance for a living. Better yet, wait until after this season and he WILL be.

[56mehl56]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

Well, it's obvious that no matter how many facts I state you are going to spew it so you can believe your very obscure, rare belief about the Jets QB. Oh, poor victimized Sanchez. He's been treated just so badly. Does that about sum it up?

See but you still don't get it , this is not about a love affair of a player, it could have been Tebow or Mcelroy or whatever other QB who graced the field for the past 4 years. Its about a HC and CS that failed to adapt their offensive system when their beloved philosophy was no longer effective. They wasted 2 years trying to force fit an archaic system when the team didn't have the resources to run it.

Originally Posted by Mainejet

I've got news for you almost NO ONE agrees with you about this. They all think what I do. Sanchez was given more than enough chances. He sucks pure and simple and he deserves to be selling f*cking life insurance for a living. Better yet, wait until after this season and he WILL be.

I don't care if people don't agree with me, I may be proven wrong ,Rex may afterall become an offensive genius, and Sanchez might still suck but there's just as much chance I'm right and Rex was the reason this team has suffered on offense for the better part of three years. Its easy to blame the QB , I know the Giants fans did in Eli's first couple of seasons how'd that work out.

We all want the same thing I just won't go *****ing and screaming and threatening to boycott games and give up my season tickets because I know no matter how I feel I won't be able to influence the outcome anymore than anyone else on these boards.

[Dreamers]

More Woody and Tanny IMO. Signing Sanchez to stupid deals to save a few bucks that you really didn't need. Dicking around with Clemens for 2 years then not bringing in a viable BU when he finally escaped. Cutting Kinne for Simms who was ranked a LOT lower in that draft. Which essentially forced you to keep a cancerous BU QB in McElroy. Mismanaging Stanton and going after Tebow. Who I have nothing against but the coaching staff obviously didn't want him and you used a good pick. THEN traded away your BEST QB for nothing. Rex is only to blame in the fact he didn't just cut McElroy before camp last year IMO. Then rest all on Tanny and Woody IMO.