Cimini: Sunday notes: A challenging QB market

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

... And Tim Tebow was a better college QB than Luck.
Means nothing...

Good point....I just don't see NFL success in Glennon. Back up or marginal success? YES.

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Awful?

Glennon, Wilson and Manuel were the only remotely decent looking QB's on the field that day.

You know this franchise is terrible when Mike "I can't hit anything in stride" Glennon is looked at as our savior

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

You know this franchise is terrible when Mike "I can't hit anything in stride" Glennon is looked at as our savior

Can you say Browning Nagle.

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

If the 46 balls that were dropped we're caught, he would have completed 66.7% of his passes...

Furthermore, go look at the game tapes and see the throws he attempts vs. a guy like Barkley.

Real NFL throws, deep outs, deep bombs, small windows...

Oh look guys! He's got the Sanchez like excuses built right into his draft profile already! He's perfect for us!

Edit: You should also see what happens when the dolt is pressured, it's a sight to be seen really.

If you're going to draft a project QB at least make sure he's athletic enough to to dig himself out of mistakes, not an awkwardly built beanstalk that looks like a deer in the headlights when pressure comes caving in.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

You know this franchise is terrible when Mike "I can't hit anything in stride" Glennon is looked at as our savior

Who the hell said he was the savior?

I personally don't ever think Glennon will be an "elite" franchise QB. I don't think any QB in this draft will ever fit that bill.

But could I see Glennon developing into a respectable Top 15 guy in the future? Yeah, I could see that.

He's a more polished version of Tyler Bray without the dickish attitude and the committment issues.

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

Oh look guys! He's got the Sanchez like excuses built right into his draft profile already! He's perfect for us!

Edit: You should also see what happens when the dolt is pressured, it's a sight to be seen really.

If you're going to draft a project QB at least make sure he's athletic enough to to dig himself out of mistakes, not an awkwardly built beanstalk that looks like a deer in the headlights when pressure comes caving in.

If Sanchez threw for 59%, 4k yards and 31 Tds, he wouldn't need excuses.
If you want to critique his performance, then you should also do the same to Russell Wilson, who in that same NC State offense threw for fewer yards, less td's, lower completion percentage and similar int ratio.

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

Can you say Browning Nagle.

That is a beyond ridiculous comparison and makes it look like you have no idea what you are talking about...

[Redlichtie]

Originally Posted by simijet

Really
[/B]

Wilson was not a project. He is a guy who dropped because he's only 5'10". Who knows, Glennon may turn out to be the real deal. However, I'd be stunned if he showed anything for at least a couple of seasons. Thus stated, if he somehow dropped to the third round - I would not object to him being picked.

Instant starters at QB do not tend to get drafted in Rd 3 by and large.

I don't recall anyone last year riding the Russell Wilson bandwagon as being a starter in year 1 let alone from day 1 and leading a playoff charge.The very fact they spent heavily on Matt Flynn ought to tell you they drafted Wilson to learn behind Flynn for a year or two before possibly being ready to take over sometime down the line or maybe at best to fulfil some sort of Tebow/Brad Smith style wildcat/change-up option off the bench....hence he was a project.

The fact he then impressed so much that they went with him over Flynn may have been a best case scenario hope but I highly doubt that the Seahawks really felt that he was their number 1 from the off.Good for them he turned out so well although it'll be interesting to see where he is after year 4.

Would be quite a shock if Glennon dropped that far.

[Redlichtie]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Who the hell said he was the savior?

I personally don't ever think Glennon will be an "elite" franchise QB. I don't think any QB in this draft will ever fit that bill.

But could I see Glennon developing into a respectable Top 15 guy in the future? Yeah, I could see that.

He's a more polished version of Tyler Bray without the dickish attitude and the committment issues.

He really only needs to be an upgrade over what we already have and being as all I ever hear is that Sanchez isn't just the worst starter in the league but worse than a number of back-up QB's then a respectable top 15 guy would be more than double the quality we currently have.

[Redlichtie]

Originally Posted by patman

What the jets had for talent in 2012 has nothing to do with 2013, you understand that more starters are going to be gone than return next year.

Besides CB there is not one position on the jets that is assured to get better (although QB should most certainly be)

First off if we had so little talent last year then presumably that's a good thing....we can only get better right?

Which starters specifically are you talking about?

You do understand that you can say exactly the same thing about every team in the league right?...just who is guaranteed to be better next year?

The salary cap era means every team has to go through roster upheaval to a point and actually a savvy GM probably views this as a blessing.Every roster should be freshened up each year.Teams latch onto trends pretty quickly so subtly changing your personnel and strengths from year to year is a good thing.

And besides,if the Jets were such a clusterfvck last year then why wouldn't a roster overhaul be a blessing?

I don't personally subscribe to the view we have to blow up this roster at all.If you agree our QB's are as bad as current conventional wisdom suggests then there has to be some talent about to have won 6 games.Factor in some key injuries to Revis,Holmes and Keller and the idea that our roster is bereft doesn't stack up entirely.

Now I'm not suggesting we don't have some holes to fill but the margins between a losing season and a playoff run are far smaller than the average fan can comprehend.It's not as simple as black and white...shades of grey are the reason why a team with a top 10 pick one year can end up in a championship game the next or the apparently loaded roster implodes and ends up under 500.

I'm not overly concerned about who we will lose.In an ideal world we keep Landry but then his injury history and the commitment in $$ we likely need to make would scare me a little so I can live with some other team finding that out the hard way.We have to believe in either Antonio Allen or Josh Bush being able to contribute next year.I would rather take the risk on Revis personally.The LB's should be better and I think the DL should be a strength.DeVito is one dimensional and that dimension is run stopping which was actually below par last year(more to do with the injuries Pouha was playing with in all likelihood).Coples is both a more than adequate defender v the run and offers wayyyy more in terms of pass rush.Clearly the offense needs an infusion of talent but there are also some existing roster options that could step up.Our OL is better than it looked sometimes in 2012 and I personally would prioritizeOur re-upping Brandon Moore while adding someone through FA or the draft.

There are also the roster cuts that we don't yet know about so some useful role players may emerge to do a decent job for a year or so(see Yeremiah Bell as an example)

The bottom line is You don't know and neither do I how the Jets roster will look or perform next year.Everything is speculation at this stage.It could go either way....you carry on hoping it goes South.The fact you are here on a Jets board with apparently a forensic understanding of the dynamics and roster of a team you don't claim to support suggests 'ye protest a little too much.'

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

That is a beyond ridiculous comparison and makes it look like you have no idea what you are talking about...

Oh yeah....how about Kellen Clemens, Brady Quinn, Chris Simms, and the list goes on and on and on of GOOD college QB's that never made an impact in the NFL.

Curious...how many full games have you seen Glennon play?

I have seen him at least 20 times , live 2 or 3.

All this defense of the guy is from what empirical evidence from you?

There is a reason NC State has never won anything major under Glennon.

Glennon was a sgood as the rest of the team. Good. Not 1st round talent IMO.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

Oh look guys! He's got the Sanchez like excuses built right into his draft profile already! He's perfect for us!

Edit: You should also see what happens when the dolt is pressured, it's a sight to be seen really.

If you're going to draft a project QB at least make sure he's athletic enough to to dig himself out of mistakes, not an awkwardly built beanstalk that looks like a deer in the headlights when pressure comes caving in.

Mediocrity becomes some fans. After 43 years...we accept gold dust while teams lap us over and over for the gold.

[Jet Blast]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

If the 46 balls that were dropped we're caught, he would have completed 66.7% of his passes...

Furthermore, go look at the game tapes and see the throws he attempts vs. a guy like Barkley.

Real NFL throws, deep outs, deep bombs, small windows...

And other teams don't drop balls?

Any QB who completes 66.7% of his passes has a percentage of them dropped. Admittedly, that percentage is probably lower on most other teams but nonetheless, its not like Sanchez should have had a completion rate that high. Furthermore, many of those drops were due to inaccurate throws.

[Redlichtie]

Originally Posted by Jet Blast

And other teams don't drop balls?

Any QB who completes 66.7% of his passes has a percentage of them dropped. Admittedly, that percentage is probably lower on most other teams but nonetheless, its not like Sanchez should have had a completion rate that high. Furthermore, many of those drops were due to inaccurate throws.

It's an interesting point though.

There may be QB's with way better completion % but they are not necessarily going to be a better pro.I guess it depends on the type of offence you run and how good the other guys around you are.The numbers on Geno Smith are sensational but is that down to a short passing game that plays to his strengths?...does he have great WR's making him look good?..is his OL and running game able to take a lot of pressure from him.?... or is he just that good?

I don't know enough about Glennon and his supporting cast to have a view other than what limited action I have seen he looks the part,that and the fact I can't think of a single other NC State player in the overall draft conversation,but it is possible those 46 drops are a significant factor that scouts will take into consideration.

I know Sanchez having the most dropped INT's is often quoted as a stick to beat him with(as well as the ones that don't get dropped)so if you happen to consider that an issue with Sanchez then it's only fair it applies to other qb's

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

Oh yeah....how about Kellen Clemens, Brady Quinn, Chris Simms, and the list goes on and on and on of GOOD college QB's that never made an impact in the NFL.

Curious...how many full games have you seen Glennon play?

I have seen him at least 20 times , live 2 or 3.

All this defense of the guy is from what empirical evidence from you?

There is a reason NC State has never won anything major under Glennon.

Glennon was a sgood as the rest of the team. Good. Not 1st round talent IMO.

Again you list guys who don't compare physically.
Glennon has more raw ability as a thrower than all the guys you list...

Is he a sure thing, no. Is he worth taking a chance on, yes and I'd say the same thing with other Qb's with his size, arm, intelligence, and ceiling...

I never said the Jets should take him at #9 btw.

I also don't need to watch 20 games to tell if a QB has the raw tools to succeed in the NFL.

I've watched probably 400+ throws that Glennon has made, just like I did before the Jets drafted Sanchez... And just like I could tell Sanchez did not have the raw tools and was public in saying he couldn't succeed, I'm saying Glennon can.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

Again you list guys who don't compare physically.
Glennon has more raw ability as a thrower than all the guys you list...

Is he a sure thing, no. Is he worth taking a chance on, yes and I'd say the same thing with other Qb's with his size, arm, intelligence, and ceiling...

I never said the Jets should take him at #9 btw.

I also don't need to watch 20 games to tell if a QB has the raw tools to succeed in the NFL.

I've watched probably 400+ throws that Glennon has made, just like I did before the Jets drafted Sanchez... And just like I could tell Sanchez did not have the raw tools and was public in saying he couldn't succeed, I'm saying Glennon can.

We'll find out.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by patman

What the jets had for talent in 2012 has nothing to do with 2013, you understand that more starters are going to be gone than return next year.

Besides CB there is not one position on the jets that is assured to get better (although QB should most certainly be)

IF you are even remotely right about this, then the Jets Front office is worse off than anyone could even imagine.


OL : 2012 / Old and slow
Ferguson
Slauson
Mangold
Moore
Howard

OL: 2013 Potential / Improved
Ferguson
Travis Federick / 2nd round
Mangold
Caleb Schlauderaff
Howard

LBers : 2012 / Old and slow
Pace
Harris
Scott
Thomas


Lbers : 2013 potential / Improved
Ansah / 1st round pick
Harris
Davis
Mcintyre

QB : 2012 / Ha ha
Sanchez
Tebow
Mcelroy

QB : 2013 Potential / Improved
McElroy
Draft Pick / Freeagent
Sanchez / Freeagent

RB : 2012 / slow and inexperience
Greene
Powell
McKnight

RB : 2013 potential / Faster
Draft Pick / 3rd round
Powell
McKnight


It's not that hard to improve what is no good .

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

You know this franchise is terrible when Mike "I can't hit anything in stride" Glennon is looked at as our savior

I could maybe accept him in the 2nd round if Idzik absolutely loves him as a prospect. Taking him at #9 would be a travesty and probably derail the guy's career before it even had a chance (because of expectations of top 10 pick, starting right away, etc)

[124]

More likely than not Matt Moore is not going to fit into the price range that we can afford, nor will Matt Hasselbeck be released, so with that in mind it's probably going to be a rookie and McElroy battling Sensitive Six for the job. I have no doubt in my mind that McElroy would beat Sensitive Six out in a true open competition for a WCO QB, but I have a feeling that Rex will give Sensitive Six the job outright unless the rookie QB of his, Idzik's and Mornhinweg's choosing, not McElroy, out plays Sensitive Six.

I don't understand the hype around E.J. Manuel - maybe it was because he was the least suckiest of all the QB's who participated at the Senior Bowl - but two QB's to keep an eye on for our offense are Tyler Wilson and Zac Dysert.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by 124

More likely than not Matt Moore is not going to fit into the price range that we can afford, nor will Matt Hasselbeck be released, so with that in mind it's probably going to be a rookie and McElroy battling Sensitive Six for the job. I have no doubt in my mind that McElroy would beat Sensitive Six out in a true open competition for a WCO QB, but I have a feeling that Rex will give Sensitive Six the job outright unless the rookie QB of his, Idzik's and Mornhinweg's choosing, not McElroy, out plays Sensitive Six.

I don't understand the hype around E.J. Manuel - maybe it was because he was the least suckiest of all the QB's who participated at the Senior Bowl - but two QB's to keep an eye on for our offense are Tyler Wilson and Zac Dysert.

Yeah I'm concerned that Moore is going to get overpaid by someone considering how weak the market is which might price us out of obtaining his services. In which case it gets scary because the QBs that we would draft in the middle rounds of this year's draft are not exactly day 1 starter types. Which could mean Mark somehow winning the job again. I joked about it during the season, but it continues to hold true, Sanchez is like Michael Myers, he has a million lives and you probably need to cut off his head to finally kill him off.