A Revis Stays offseason

[patman]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

So according to u, a player nobody would give a 1st round pick for is worth 15 mil to us because he is on our team. According to u, Revis the consensus best CB in the league when healthy is not better at 80% than some kid coming into the league from this draft.

U asked me what was it that Ziggy did to warrant going at 9. I will answer that by asking you what did he do to warrant being mentioned with the likes of Chandler Jones and JPP ? If those doing the drafting knew what those players were going to turn into prior, where do u figure those 2 players would have been drafted ?

What I believe, and it is only my opinion- no more right or wrong than yours. is that Revis contract demands are so high that when combined with the price of a 1st rd pick is too rich. Especially in light that he is rehabbing from an injury.

If Revis was a FA I think He would get 13mill and 77 total a year. not the 96 mill that Williams got or the 92 million that Peppers got. (I Know I said 80 mil but 3 mill was given up from this years salary)

Revis at 80% is better than any of the guys that you could get in the middle of the 1st rd. No doubt about it. But is is Revis and 13 mill of cap room. For reference, take Minn picking 23 they could give that to the jets and get Revis. They have 16 mill in capspace and the 1st year hit will leave them with enough money to sign the rest of thier rookies , but no room to sign any of thier FA. Or they could draft Banks or Rhodes at 23 and use 11 mill to sign other FA, Is Revis better than banks, you bet. But is revis better than Banks and 3 other starters that they could get for that 11 mill of cap room?

Why i think it works for the jets to keep him is at least it gives the jet fans something to look forward to. The jets next year will have about 40 mill of cap room if they let Revis walk in FA. With that 40 mill they will buy more FA than they lose so there goes the comp pick from losing Revis. Add the 9 mill of cap room that it would cost to move him this year.

What I asked is that you find me the buyers for Revis willing to give 6 years and 77 mill and the #1 pick for the pleasure of doing so.

I don't understand your question on the Jones or JPP picks.

[Pats1960]

This has been what I would call a 3i thread... informative, interesting and intelligent. I give it two thumbs up.

[Yankeejet22]

Originally Posted by patman

I won't say this one is perfect

I must say... I give you credit doing a Jets Off season Mock.. I couldn't do one for the hated Pats. If I did, I'd probably have the Pats fire Beli, and trade Brady to the Vikings for a conditional 7th rounder.

Props to you, a good football fan.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by patman

What I believe, and it is only my opinion- no more right or wrong than yours. is that Revis contract demands are so high that when combined with the price of a 1st rd pick is too rich. Especially in light that he is rehabbing from an injury.

If Revis was a FA I think He would get 13mill and 77 total a year. not the 96 mill that Williams got or the 92 million that Peppers got. (I Know I said 80 mil but 3 mill was given up from this years salary)

Revis at 80% is better than any of the guys that you could get in the middle of the 1st rd. No doubt about it. But is is Revis and 13 mill of cap room. For reference, take Minn picking 23 they could give that to the jets and get Revis. They have 16 mill in capspace and the 1st year hit will leave them with enough money to sign the rest of thier rookies , but no room to sign any of thier FA. Or they could draft Banks or Rhodes at 23 and use 11 mill to sign other FA, Is Revis better than banks, you bet. But is revis better than Banks and 3 other starters that they could get for that 11 mill of cap room?

Why i think it works for the jets to keep him is at least it gives the jet fans something to look forward to. The jets next year will have about 40 mill of cap room if they let Revis walk in FA. With that 40 mill they will buy more FA than they lose so there goes the comp pick from losing Revis. Add the 9 mill of cap room that it would cost to move him this year.

What I asked is that you find me the buyers for Revis willing to give 6 years and 77 mill and the #1 pick for the pleasure of doing so.

I don't understand your question on the Jones or JPP picks.

Actually, i was thinking more along the Lines of the Bucs and their 13th pick. IMHO, no team needs a CB more than this team. The Bucs average almost 20 points per game scoring, yet couldn't stop a nose bleed so to speak. This team has a solid run defense, but if you can throw the ball, you can score against that team. If i am a young HC with my 1st NFL assignment looking to make a splash on the weakest part of my team, do i spend my 1st round pick on say the CB from Alabama or do i excite my team and it's fan base by adding a solid citizen with unquestionable character who happens to be the best player in the league at his position .

Revis might be worth atleast 1 TD to the Bucs which immediately improves their miserable pass defense and throws an assist to their offense.


As far as the JPP / Ziggy conversation goes, u made the comparrison along with some of the so-called experts , not me. If all the teams that didn't draft JPP knew what he was before hand, do u think they would have allowed him to get to the giants. In Ziggy Ansah you have a player who's new to the game yet is exhibiting extra ordinary play making ability. There's no evidence that the kid is a slacker off the field or on it. Everything checks out and the drills match the tape, so where do u take this player. I didn't make the comparrison

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by patman

I won't say this one is perfect

The Jets have 2.5mill in carryover- which i carry over again for use during in season pick ups and the practice squad. so no effect on my calcualtions

1. The usual cuts which brings the money allocated to 107 mill or 14 in cap room
2. Revis signs a 6 year 80 mill contract to begin on the start of the new league year. No money is exchanged until then, This is treated as an extension so no cap hit in 2013. In response to getting the contract early, before suiting up, he forgoes the 3 mill in roster and workout bonuses in 2013. now 17 mill in cap room.
3. Cro converts 6mill of salary and 2.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB and extends 3 years at 8 mill per, in 2015 he gets a 6mill bonus SB guaranteed. this gives the jets another 6 mill in room so now you have 23 mill in space.
4 Mangold converts 3.5 of WO/Roster bonus to a SB for 2.5 in space the jets now have 25.5 mill in cap space.

Rookie pool allocation 6.5 mill now leaves 19 mill

Re-signs
1. tag Howard 1.8mill
2. sign Braylon 2.0 mill
3. sign Folk 1.5 mill
4 Sign B Moore 2.0 mill A total of 7.5 mil leaving 11.5 mill for FA

signed FA

Matt Moore signs a 3 year 10 mill contract with another 10 in incentives, with the first year salary of 3mill guaranteed. and 2 mill of the 2nd year guranteed.

1. Moore 3 mill
2. SS Wilson 1.5
3. Erin Henderson 2.5 mill
4 Delanie Walker 4 mill
total 11 mill leaving 1/2 mill

The drafted player positions order taken +/- 2 spots from
http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html and trade values taken from the "chart"
As everyone has different values it make no sense to just place somebody at some random point.

jets trade # 9 and 110 to St Louis (Eric Fisher) for #22, 46, 78

#22- Ziggy Ansah Rush LB
39- Kevin Minter ILB
46- Eddie Lacy RB
72- kyle Long OT/OG
76- Tony Jefferson FS
155- Connor Vernon WR
190- Mike Catapano Rush LB
225 - Corey Fuller WR

I have to say that I like this plan more than most. The Revis extension is solid numbers wise and the absolute correct decision. I also love the trade down and specifics on values for the trade.

Here are some areas which I would differ. I'm not in favor of Moore at QB. I'd rather trade a 4th or 5th rounder for Flynn. Also I would consider trading Cro for the right price (2nd Rounder) and picking up an additional 8 Million in cap space this and next season. I would also switch the #76 pick from the FB to one of the QB class that drops there. Maybe Manual or Bray.

All in all though a solid job here.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by Yankeejet22

I must say... I give you credit doing a Jets Off season Mock.. I couldn't do one for the hated Pats. If I did, I'd probably have the Pats fire Beli, and trade Brady to the Vikings for a conditional 7th rounder.

Props to you, a good football fan.

That dude is no troll, he knows his football, and u can see the love for the game in the way he writes.

[patman]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

Actually, i was thinking more along the Lines of the Bucs and their 13th pick. IMHO, no team needs a CB more than this team. The Bucs average almost 20 points per game scoring, yet couldn't stop a nose bleed so to speak. This team has a solid run defense, but if you can throw the ball, you can score against that team. If i am a young HC with my 1st NFL assignment looking to make a splash on the weakest part of my team, do i spend my 1st round pick on say the CB from Alabama or do i excite my team and it's fan base by adding a solid citizen with unquestionable character who happens to be the best player in the league at his position .

Revis might be worth atleast 1 TD to the Bucs which immediately improves their miserable pass defense and throws an assist to their offense.


As far as the JPP / Ziggy conversation goes, u made the comparrison along with some of the so-called experts , not me. If all the teams that didn't draft JPP knew what he was before hand, do u think they would have allowed him to get to the giants. In Ziggy Ansah you have a player who's new to the game yet is exhibiting extra ordinary play making ability. There's no evidence that the kid is a slacker off the field or on it. Everything checks out and the drills match the tape, so where do u take this player. I didn't make the comparison

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

If you read my post to preclude questions like yours I took the top 200 players according to a draft site and I posted a link to the site so that fans would tell me thier choice with the guys available . Agreed, I don't know how they are going to come off the board and no one else does either.. By using a top 200 list the poster loses control over who is available just like the real draft- get it?
You see fans on this site taking CB Banks in the third! Where the consensus is that his is a borderline 1st.

As far as Revis value again it is Revis taking 13 mill of cap room or Milliner and 11 mill of cap room. Say William Moore and Goldson as Free agents making 6 mill a year.
It just comes down to do you want to allocate 12% of your cap to a CB. Do you have other critical players on your team coming up for FA, In the case of Minn, it is Jarred Allen, how is he going to feel about a guy coming in making 25% more than he is, or What about Von Miller in two years, he may want to be the highest paid.

[patman]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

I have to say that I like this plan more than most. The Revis extension is solid numbers wise and the absolute correct decision. I also love the trade down and specifics on values for the trade.

Here are some areas which I would differ. I'm not in favor of Moore at QB. I'd rather trade a 4th or 5th rounder for Flynn. Also I would consider trading Cro for the right price (2nd Rounder) and picking up an additional 8 Million in cap space this and next season. I would also switch the #76 pick from the FB to one of the QB class that drops there. Maybe Manual or Bray.

All in all though a solid job here.

Click on the link to the top 100 draft picks and tell me who is there that you want. Jefferson is a Safety not a FB

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by patman

Click on the link to the top 100 draft picks and tell me who is there that you want. Jefferson is a Safety not a FB

I misread that description. I can get on board with a S at that spot. I use Tony's top 100 list for my mocks.

Tony has Banks as the 5th best CB and a mid second round talent. I don't think getting him at the top of the 3rd is wildly out of balance there as far as value goes.

[patman]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

I have to say that I like this plan more than most. The Revis extension is solid numbers wise and the absolute correct decision. I also love the trade down and specifics on values for the trade.

Here are some areas which I would differ. I'm not in favor of Moore at QB. I'd rather trade a 4th or 5th rounder for Flynn. Also I would consider trading Cro for the right price (2nd Rounder) and picking up an additional 8 Million in cap space this and next season. I would also switch the #76 pick from the FB to one of the QB class that drops there. Maybe Manual or Bray.

All in all though a solid job here.

My thought was that the can have a certain amount of players making premium dollars as they don't have a qb making 12-15mill a year.

Well Flynn will cost you a forth and will cost you 2.5 more in cap space.

[patman]

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

I misread that description. I can get on board with a S at that spot. I use Tony's top 100 list for my mocks.

Tony has Banks as the 5th best CB and a mid second round talent. I don't think getting him at the top of the 3rd is wildly out of balance there as far as value goes.

Yeah, I understand, I could use another list and have picked 7 different players.

I only used my choice was that thier list went to 225 players so I could do a full draft. I seen other lists that have Banks going in the first.

[chiefst2000]

Originally Posted by patman

My thought was that the can have a certain amount of players making premium dollars as they don't have a qb making 12-15mill a year.

Well Flynn will cost you a forth and will cost you 2.5 more in cap space.

I think the cost for Flynn is worthwhile. I am not of the mind that a team should ever go into a season without the potential to win games and compete for the playoffs or at worst develop a young QB. With Moore and your plan we are essentially doing none of those things. Flynn will cost a 4th or 5th rounder and is a cuttable player that has a high ceiling. We know Moore is no more than a stopgap/Jag type player. Is he better then Sanchez? Yes, but who isn't. Flynn has the potential to shine in the WCO and I think the reward is well worth a day 3 draft pick and 2 million more than Moore. I'd also be ok with a player like Matt Barclay to fill that role this season if he can be had with a mid 2nd round pick.

[Gangrene]

Originally Posted by patman

First
1. what team out there has 15 mill of cap room to sign Revis?
2. Which one of those teams value corner that high (Cinci would not pay Joseph 8 mill)
3. Which one of those team will give a #1 to the jets before Revis is even ready to do drills, not even with a uniform on just drills. he will be working in the pool in April.
4. you confusing the market for Revis as a FA with the market for him as a injured player coming off an ACL, in a trade with a team asking for a #1.

I laid out a scenario where the jets saved 3mill in cap room by signing Revis.
I allocated QB money to Revis, as the jets don't have a qb in the future that will get paid 12 mill a year. even if Moore does not work out and you draft a guy in the top 5 next year he only makes less than 5mill per for the first 4 years. Your trading Revis, before he can work out, a trade thatrequires the jets to take a a 9mill cap hit this year, so instead of saving 3 your spending an additional 6 to trade him. All this while expecting a team to give you a #1 for the right to see him rehab. And you have to replace him, and this year without Landry and without Cro having a career year.

Now to your other points, What did Ziggy do to get him at #9? He had a great senior bowl, but looked to be out of positon as often as in position. I see him going where Chandler Jones and JPP went. Mid 20s.

First of all, you really need to reconsider your fandom, being a fan of the Patriots is too easy, it's like been a Yankee, looking back at the bright lights in the rear view mirror of a great and glorious past. Being a Jets fan requires a certain neurosis ... and I think you are developing one.

Secondly I admit to having a bad memory retention of cap rooms etc but Tampa Bay has tons of room and a dire need at cb after trading that malcontent to the Pats ?

With the recent sound bite today from Revis it seems more and more like he will be playing in another uniform this summer. You are right that the Jets may not get a a quality picks as much as fans would like given the exorbitant money he is looking for. Unlike some of the other replies to your post I concur with you signing of Braylon at 2M (maybe includes easy to attain bonus connected to staying on the field), the aging Moore at OG and our kickers. I am not crazy about Folk but he is more consistent than what we've had, I don't want a rookie kicker ...
Neither am I a fan of Matt Moore but I understand at the money the Jets have to spend there is nothing but backup quality out there.

[patman]

Originally Posted by Gangrene

First of all, you really need to reconsider your fandom, being a fan of the Patriots is too easy, it's like been a Yankee, looking back at the bright lights in the rear view mirror of a great and glorious past. Being a Jets fan requires a certain neurosis ... and I think you are developing one.

Secondly I admit to having a bad memory retention of cap rooms etc but Tampa Bay has tons of room and a dire need at cb after trading that malcontent to the Pats ?

With the recent sound bite today from Revis it seems more and more like he will be playing in another uniform this summer. You are right that the Jets may not get a a quality picks as much as fans would like given the exorbitant money he is looking for. Unlike some of the other replies to your post I concur with you signing of Braylon at 2M (maybe includes easy to attain bonus connected to staying on the field), the aging Moore at OG and our kickers. I am not crazy about Folk but he is more consistent than what we've had, I don't want a rookie kicker ...
Neither am I a fan of Matt Moore but I understand at the money the Jets have to spend there is nothing but backup quality out there.

Nah, I was a season ticket holder in the 80s through all those 2-14 seasons besides the SB run in 85- I actually gave up my tickets in 93 when Kraft bought the team. I built may house and had my 2nd son, and my wife thought my tickets money could be better put to use on our house. Then lo and behold the playoffs every year but 4 since then.

Yes Tampa has plenty of money cap wise this year, but they have plenty of holes also. What I am saying that if I was a tampa fan I would rather have Millner at 13 and 2 of the 4 probowl safeties that are FA that you can get for 6 mill a piece. Go in FA and get Gary Williams, Cason, Jenkins any of those 6 mill a year guys on the other side. Millner, Williams, William Moore, Jaruis Byrd. Instant solution to the problem. At the same price as Williams and Revis by themselves.

I rather have 4 guys two of which are probowlers, making 22mill than two corners even if one of them is the best in the game. There are 4 guys running patterns and only one revis.

[Gangrene]

Originally Posted by patman

Nah, I was a season ticket holder in the 80s through all those 2-14 seasons besides the SB run in 85- I actually gave up my tickets in 93 when Kraft bought the team. I built may house and had my 2nd son, and my wife thought my tickets money could be better put to use on our house. Then lo and behold the playoffs every year but 4 since then.

Yes Tampa has plenty of money cap wise this year, but they have plenty of holes also. What I am saying that if I was a tampa fan I would rather have Millner at 13 and 2 of the 4 probowl safeties that are FA that you can get for 6 mill a piece. Go in FA and get Gary Williams, Cason, Jenkins any of those 6 mill a year guys on the other side. Millner, Williams, William Moore, Jaruis Byrd. Instant solution to the problem. At the same price as Williams and Revis by themselves.

I rather have 4 guys two of which are probowlers, making 22mill than two corners even if one of them is the best in the game. There are 4 guys running patterns and only one revis.

Your rationale is solid ... I can only hope as a Jet fan in favor of a trade that the Tampa GM wants to put some fannies in the seats in Tampa Bay with purportedly one of the best defensive players in the league playing back there. Presumably the standard of living is much lower in Tampa along with the fact that there are not as many corporations to buy company tickets - Revis might help sell tickets.

[patman]

Originally Posted by Gangrene

Your rationale is solid ... I can only hope as a Jet fan in favor of a trade that the Tampa GM wants to put some fannies in the seats in Tampa Bay with purportedly one of the best defensive players in the league playing back there. Presumably the standard of living is much lower in Tampa along with the fact that there are not as many corporations to buy company tickets - Revis might help sell tickets.

Winning sells tickets, The only players that sell tickets are offensive players. You don't even watch Revis, most times the guy is not even thrown against.
It is like watching Ginger Rogers mirror Fred Astire's dance moves. Nice but not what i paid $100 to see.

[CanadaSteve]

Originally Posted by Vegi5894

My problem is I doubt you're getting minter in the second, although its possible, but we're definitely not getting lacy in the third, otherwise, not of shabby

In this Mock, Lacy is not being drafted in the third round, but about mid-way through the second.

I also don't think Moore is moving out of Miami. I've read a few articles where it sounds like he is going to stay there.

[Dreamers]

I don't get signing Edwards then drafting 2 WRs. Seems counter productive with so many bigger wholes. Let Edwards play in Canada and use the money on anther OLB. This is not my ideal scenario but it seems doable.

[patman]

Right now you have Kerley and Hill. Holmes is recovering from Liz Franc and who knows if he will play the full year and most likely will be gone in 2014 anyway.
Then throw in that they are 5th and 7th rd picks so it does not make the investment steep. I picked two hoping one would be serviceable.

I have to give Sapp a shot.

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

I was just getting to the point where i could say i am cool with a Pats fan and then this. Listen you, there is no deal where Revis remains a Jet. Especially when it's made by someone who would love to see us further sabotage our Salary Cap.

Furthermore, there's no way Ziggy Ansah will make it to 10 farless 22. This is how the Pats draft, so go help them screw up their next draft. We are trading Revis for a 1st rounder. We're taking Ziggy at 9 and the best available OG with the pick we get for Revis. That's the Plan pal, so read it understand it love it and then get upset when these players help us take over the AFC East in 2 yrs.

Exactly. That's the major problem. Someone like Ziggy with his off the charts athleticism is not going to last till #22 with so many needy teams picking before that. This is a league where teams are constantly hunting for players who can give them a dominant edge and Ziggy's physical abilities has it in spades.