Let's Do It This Way: Who would it be *acceptable* for Jets to draft at #9

Tackleem · 01-24-2013, 10:42 PM

Here's my list, in rough order:

Barkevious Mingo*
Geno Smith
Chance Warmack
Kenny Vaccaro
DeMarcus Milliner
Dion Jordan*
Cordarrelle Patterson

That's about it on my list, anybody else either isn't a priority or I'd take only in a trade-down scenario.

*for Mingo and Jordan because I don't think you can take a college DE here unless you are absolutely sure he can play standing up, that's why Bjorn and Ansah etc. aren't on the list. Jordan makes me nervous because I don't think you can take an injury risk at 9, which is why Jarvis Jones isn't on my list at all.

Anyone else?

FreshBaked 24 7 · 01-25-2013, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tackleem

Here's my list, in rough order:

Barkevious Mingo*
Geno Smith
Chance Warmack
Kenny Vaccaro
DeMarcus Milliner
Dion Jordan*
Cordarrelle Patterson

That's about it on my list, anybody else either isn't a priority or I'd take only in a trade-down scenario.

*for Mingo and Jordan because I don't think you can take a college DE here unless you are absolutely sure he can play standing up, that's why Bjorn and Ansah etc. aren't on the list. Jordan makes me nervous because I don't think you can take an injury risk at 9, which is why Jarvis Jones isn't on my list at all.

Anyone else?

Reach city batman

Patterson will not be a top 10 pick int he slightest

Dion Jordan is hurt and requires surgery so pass

It really does not matter how good Chance Warmack is, you don't waste the #8 pick on a guard and I can guarantee he won't go top 10

Same with Vaccaro, unless they're once in a generation safeties you don't take one in the top 10.

Rexipus Rex · 01-25-2013, 02:07 AM

I'm going to go ahead and say guys like Joekel, Lotulelei, Werner, and Moore are all locks to be gone before pick 9. Of those four, Moore is my pipe dream guy.

Considering everyone else is fair game, this is how I currently stand:

1) Geno Smith
2) Barkevious Mingo
3) (A Medically Cleared) Jarvis Jones -- big if...any doubts and he's off the board
4) Chance Warmack
5) Keenan Allen

After the top three (or two if Jones isn't checked out), I'd prefer to trade down. I could certainly live with Warmack or Allen, however. Assuming things play out, we'd have our choice at bare minimum that list.

QB is a big need, but anyone besides Geno here is desperate because I think he's the only guy capable of starting right off the bat aside from Barkley who I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. I don't think people realize how big of a need OLB is, however. Tanny had 7 drafts and 41 picks and only took one OLB in that time, and his name shall never be spoken again. All the good teams have an edge rusher.

BigJet85 · 01-25-2013, 03:24 AM

I am not looking for projects for rex this year...this draft is you get drafted ..."heres your jersey and pads son you are starting... act like it" we had Davis this year and he was far quicker and faster than scott but because of loyalty we made bart play ...f that.....unless we are drafting starters i dont want to see project guys we need it now... compete and win O and O line as well as TE and LBs should be our goal and trades and veteran leadership

Bronxville Jets Fan · 01-25-2013, 08:57 AM

The definites:

Jones (assuming medical clearance)
Mingo
Warmack
Milner (depending on Revis situation)
Joeckel (too good to pass up, even if not a need)

The possibilities, but too early to tell:

Geno Smith
D Jordan
E Fisher

Extreme long shot:

E Ansah

Dreamers · 01-25-2013, 08:59 AM

At 9

Geno
Milliner
Mingo
Werner
Barkley
Moore
Keenan Allen

That is it. I personally hope we trade down and grab more picks but I said that last year when it was a stronger draft.

Tinstar · 01-25-2013, 10:38 AM

LT - Eric Fisher - Plays a premium position and would help the Jets begin to rebuild their OL.

OLB - Ezekiel Ansah - Only if he proves he can play the OLber position in drills. He has the size to set the edge and the ability to get to the QB on his own. Can he move in space in the short zone is the question that will need to be answered.

Those R the only 2 since all the others will be gone before them.

crasherino · 01-25-2013, 10:42 AM

Is Geno a "no doubter" if he falls to 9? I'm sure he probably won't be around, but it scares me to no end. I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to a top-10 QB this year. I feel like its too soon. We're still getting over our last one. I'm not ready to commit just yet.

If Geno's gone, I don't think we have a problem. But if he's there? Makes me really nervous. I'm sure after the hype machine takes over, I'll feel different, but I'm more prepared to "half-ass" it with a 2nd/3rd round QB at this point.

jetsfan1983 · 01-25-2013, 10:58 AM

Some of you people always get worked up about the wrong things... The whole idea of a reach is just stupid... You absolutely consider where the player may go, but you are choosing the player who you think will become the great NFL player. You aren't trying to get this fictitious "value" that people speak of. "Value" is based on what? What some websites have someone ranked at?

One of the examples I can make is DT Ron Brace. I was 1000% confident that Brace would be a bust in the NFL. He was getting mentioned as a 2nd rounder, but I wouldn't have taken him in the 5th round because it was a waste of time. Some of the dumb draft sites would have applauded me for getting him in the 5th when he was talked about so long as a 2nd rounder but it was just a bad pick in any round.

That's the way people have to look at the draft. I used to be stupid as well and get worked up about the "reaches" and "good values" but you can never even prove what is truly good value or a reach so it's not worth talking about. The only thing that matters is whether the player turns into a good player or a bad player.

Guys like Dion Jordan and Sam Montgomery right now aren't seen as top 10 picks but I would absolutely take either of them because I believe they are going to be good players. I think their positives will carry over very well to the NFL. I also think they have the right mentalities. I can't promise myself that a team wouldn't take either of them around pick #12 so I do the safe thing and take the guy at number 9 in order to ensure I get the player I believe is going to be the good NFL player.

And Cordarrelle Patterson is absolutely a top 15 talent for the poster who suggested he wasn't above.

jetsfan1983 · 01-25-2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crasherino

Is Geno a "no doubter" if he falls to 9? I'm sure he probably won't be around, but it scares me to no end. I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to a top-10 QB this year. I feel like its too soon. We're still getting over our last one. I'm not ready to commit just yet.

If Geno's gone, I don't think we have a problem. But if he's there? Makes me really nervous. I'm sure after the hype machine takes over, I'll feel different, but I'm more prepared to "half-ass" it with a 2nd/3rd round QB at this point.

You can't play the game scared... The way to look at it is between Nassib, Glennon, Wilson, Geno, there will probably be one guy who turns into a solid NFL QB. Make the choice of who you think has the best chance to turn into a good player and take a swing.

At the QB position, nowadays its just best to keep swinging away. Statistically speaking, you'll eventually hit.

Untouchable · 01-25-2013, 11:19 AM

1. Geno
2. Warmack
3. Mingo

Whip · 01-25-2013, 11:36 AM

If Warmack is available I think he is a no brainer. It is rare that you can draft a guy of his ability and proven performance, from the best program in football, at a position of need

white lightning · 01-25-2013, 11:41 AM

There is no way Joeckel will slip to 9, so this is who i would like.

1. Jones
2. Warmack
3. Werner
4. Mingo
5. Fisher

sec.101row23 · 01-25-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

Reach city batman

Patterson will not be a top 10 pick int he slightest

Dion Jordan is hurt and requires surgery so pass

It really does not matter how good Chance Warmack is, you don't waste the #8 pick on a guard and I can guarantee he won't go top 10

Same with Vaccaro, unless they're once in a generation safeties you don't take one in the top 10.

I think the traditional position draft values are not applicable anymore. With the old rookie pay scale, you had to worry about taking a safety in the top 10 and paying him like a pro bowl veteran from day one. So you wouldnt take that player based solely on money. Now you can really take the kid you think is going to be the best player and not worry so much about reaching or bad value.

nycdan · 01-25-2013, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

I think the traditional position draft values are not applicable anymore. With the old rookie pay scale, you had to worry about taking a safety in the top 10 and paying him like a pro bowl veteran from day one. So you wouldnt take that player based solely on money. Now you can really take the kid you think is going to be the best player and not worry so much about reaching or bad value.

Very good point. Yes, we need an OLB, but I think we need a running game more.

Warmack in the 1st, RB in the 2nd, and guess what, you might just have a much more effective running game next year. And if the pass-pro is better too, who knows what else

Draft is a crapshoot anyway, so I don't have a problem taking as close to a 'sure-thing' as there is at 9, even an OG.

Tackleem · 01-25-2013, 03:03 PM

I agree to an extent on "reaching" being a myth. It does however come into play if you think there's a mismatch between a player's perceived value and his actual value. If I think Vaccaro is a second-round talent and say, the guard Cooper is a first round talent, but I know Vaccaro won't be around at #39, I take him first and take the risk on waiting to take Cooper. Pedestrian point, but true nonetheless.

Whether I'd be really happy drafting Vaccaro (or Milliner or Banks for that matter) in the first comes down to whether one of Revis/Cromartie are traded. With Revis, Cromartie taking 100 percent of defensive snaps and Wilson on the field most of the time, you can live with average safety play and plug in Allen/Bush/Bell/JAG. If you are downgrading at corner, you really need guys who can help over the top in coverage.

Eckesg1 · 01-25-2013, 05:15 PM

By the way....

Who came up with the rule that guards can't be drafted in the top 10 and that tackles can?

Rexipus Rex · 01-25-2013, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckesg1

By the way....

Who came up with the rule that guards can't be drafted in the top 10 and that tackles can?

Two things:

1) Old rookie pay scale. Paying a rookie guard $5MM/yr off the bat wasn't wise. Even if he comes in and plays at an average starting level, that's a bad cap investment. The only way it "pays off" is if the guy is a surefire Pro Bowler from Day 1. Under the new rookie scale, we're now talking about paying a guy a much more reasonable $3MM/yr for 4 years for the 9th pick. For reference, that would be slightly below what Brandon Moore made the last 4 years. I wouldn't call it a "wise" investment to take a guard at #9, but if we're talking about Warmack, then it is plenty wise.

2) The game is ever evolving and having interior pass rushers these days is growing in priority. We're seeing guys like Watt and Atkins putting up double digit sacks and guys like Justin Smith and Calais Campbell not too far behind (Wilk/Coples are entering this territory too). So in terms of cause:effect, guards are in essence more important now than in the past.

FreshBaked 24 7 · 01-25-2013, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckesg1

By the way....

Who came up with the rule that guards can't be drafted in the top 10 and that tackles can?

There are 64 starting guards in the NFL, some good and some bad, and in the last 10 years only 6 guards have been taken in the first round (And off the top of my head Ben Grubbs isn't a starter)

Does that mean that 26 teams have trouble running the ball up this middle for 4 yards and can't protect their quarterbacks from blitzes up the middle? Or does that mean no matter how talented the guard prospect that a guy outside the first round will give you the same amount of production?

Edit: Just because there is a smaller sting financially for taking players in the first round with the new CBA doesn't mean you get to go full retard and take a guy that you could (and should) get in later rounds

DDNYjets · 01-25-2013, 06:14 PM

I want to go Big and Ugly. Build a strong foundation for Teddy B!!!!!!

Warmack
Fisher - Based on Tony's Top 25 Fisher might be a reach @ 9, so maybe we trade down for him.

If not

Milliner - if we trade Revis.

01-25-2013, 10:38 AM	#7
Tinstar Saved,and Thankfull All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,451	Depending on the Combine workouts LT - Eric Fisher - Plays a premium position and would help the Jets begin to rebuild their OL. OLB - Ezekiel Ansah - Only if he proves he can play the OLber position in drills. He has the size to set the edge and the ability to get to the QB on his own. Can he move in space in the short zone is the question that will need to be answered. Those R the only 2 since all the others will be gone before them.

01-24-2013, 10:42 PM	#1
Tackleem The phonetic spelling of how Phil Simms says 'tackle him" Practice Squad Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 306	*Let's Do It This Way: Who would it be acceptable* for Jets to draft at #9** Here's my list, in rough order: Barkevious Mingo* Geno Smith Chance Warmack Kenny Vaccaro DeMarcus Milliner Dion Jordan* Cordarrelle Patterson That's about it on my list, anybody else either isn't a priority or I'd take only in a trade-down scenario. *for Mingo and Jordan because I don't think you can take a college DE here unless you are absolutely sure he can play standing up, that's why Bjorn and Ansah etc. aren't on the list. Jordan makes me nervous because I don't think you can take an injury risk at 9, which is why Jarvis Jones isn't on my list at all. Anyone else?

01-25-2013, 02:07 AM	#3
Rexipus Rex Mo' money Veteran Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: E'Ville Posts: 1,199	I'm going to go ahead and say guys like Joekel, Lotulelei, Werner, and Moore are all locks to be gone before pick 9. Of those four, Moore is my pipe dream guy. Considering everyone else is fair game, this is how I currently stand: 1) Geno Smith 2) Barkevious Mingo 3) (A Medically Cleared) Jarvis Jones -- big if...any doubts and he's off the board 4) Chance Warmack 5) Keenan Allen After the top three (or two if Jones isn't checked out), I'd prefer to trade down. I could certainly live with Warmack or Allen, however. Assuming things play out, we'd have our choice at bare minimum that list. QB is a big need, but anyone besides Geno here is desperate because I think he's the only guy capable of starting right off the bat aside from Barkley who I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. I don't think people realize how big of a need OLB is, however. Tanny had 7 drafts and 41 picks and only took one OLB in that time, and his name shall never be spoken again. All the good teams have an edge rusher.

01-25-2013, 03:24 AM	#4
BigJet85 OL HELP! Veteran Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North Shore of Long Island. East Setauket Posts: 1,559	I am not looking for projects for rex this year...this draft is you get drafted ..."heres your jersey and pads son you are starting... act like it" we had Davis this year and he was far quicker and faster than scott but because of loyalty we made bart play ...f that.....unless we are drafting starters i dont want to see project guys we need it now... compete and win O and O line as well as TE and LBs should be our goal and trades and veteran leadership

01-25-2013, 08:57 AM	#5
Bronxville Jets Fan The eternal optimist Veteran Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Eastchester, NY Posts: 1,122	The definites: Jones (assuming medical clearance) Mingo Warmack Milner (depending on Revis situation) Joeckel (too good to pass up, even if not a need) The possibilities, but too early to tell: Geno Smith D Jordan E Fisher Extreme long shot: E Ansah

01-25-2013, 08:59 AM	#6
Dreamers The angry poster All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,396	At 9 Geno Milliner Mingo Werner Barkley Moore Keenan Allen That is it. I personally hope we trade down and grab more picks but I said that last year when it was a stronger draft.

01-25-2013, 10:42 AM	#8
crasherino Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 16,807	Is Geno a "no doubter" if he falls to 9? I'm sure he probably won't be around, but it scares me to no end. I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to a top-10 QB this year. I feel like its too soon. We're still getting over our last one. I'm not ready to commit just yet. If Geno's gone, I don't think we have a problem. But if he's there? Makes me really nervous. I'm sure after the hype machine takes over, I'll feel different, but I'm more prepared to "half-ass" it with a 2nd/3rd round QB at this point.

01-25-2013, 10:58 AM	#9
jetsfan1983 All Pro Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,835	Some of you people always get worked up about the wrong things... The whole idea of a reach is just stupid... You absolutely consider where the player may go, but you are choosing the player who you think will become the great NFL player. You aren't trying to get this fictitious "value" that people speak of. "Value" is based on what? What some websites have someone ranked at? One of the examples I can make is DT Ron Brace. I was 1000% confident that Brace would be a bust in the NFL. He was getting mentioned as a 2nd rounder, but I wouldn't have taken him in the 5th round because it was a waste of time. Some of the dumb draft sites would have applauded me for getting him in the 5th when he was talked about so long as a 2nd rounder but it was just a bad pick in any round. That's the way people have to look at the draft. I used to be stupid as well and get worked up about the "reaches" and "good values" but you can never even prove what is truly good value or a reach so it's not worth talking about. The only thing that matters is whether the player turns into a good player or a bad player. Guys like Dion Jordan and Sam Montgomery right now aren't seen as top 10 picks but I would absolutely take either of them because I believe they are going to be good players. I think their positives will carry over very well to the NFL. I also think they have the right mentalities. I can't promise myself that a team wouldn't take either of them around pick #12 so I do the safe thing and take the guy at number 9 in order to ensure I get the player I believe is going to be the good NFL player. And Cordarrelle Patterson is absolutely a top 15 talent for the poster who suggested he wasn't above.

01-25-2013, 11:19 AM	#11
Untouchable Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 22,403	1. Geno 2. Warmack 3. Mingo

01-25-2013, 11:36 AM	#12
Whip Waterboy Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 6	If Warmack is available I think he is a no brainer. It is rare that you can draft a guy of his ability and proven performance, from the best program in football, at a position of need

01-25-2013, 11:41 AM	#13
white lightning Practice Squad Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Greensboro, N.C Posts: 280	There is no way Joeckel will slip to 9, so this is who i would like. 1. Jones 2. Warmack 3. Werner 4. Mingo 5. Fisher

01-25-2013, 03:03 PM	#16
Tackleem The phonetic spelling of how Phil Simms says 'tackle him" Practice Squad Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 306	I agree to an extent on "reaching" being a myth. It does however come into play if you think there's a mismatch between a player's perceived value and his actual value. If I think Vaccaro is a second-round talent and say, the guard Cooper is a first round talent, but I know Vaccaro won't be around at #39, I take him first and take the risk on waiting to take Cooper. Pedestrian point, but true nonetheless. Whether I'd be really happy drafting Vaccaro (or Milliner or Banks for that matter) in the first comes down to whether one of Revis/Cromartie are traded. With Revis, Cromartie taking 100 percent of defensive snaps and Wilson on the field most of the time, you can live with average safety play and plug in Allen/Bush/Bell/JAG. If you are downgrading at corner, you really need guys who can help over the top in coverage.

01-25-2013, 05:15 PM	#17
Eckesg1 All Pro Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6,352	By the way.... Who came up with the rule that guards can't be drafted in the top 10 and that tackles can?

01-25-2013, 06:14 PM	#20
DDNYjets Bye week buh bye Rex Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,235	I want to go Big and Ugly. Build a strong foundation for Teddy B!!!!!! Warmack Fisher - Based on Tony's Top 25 Fisher might be a reach @ 9, so maybe we trade down for him. If not Milliner - if we trade Revis.