Cimini: Sunday notes: A challenging QB market

[Maury77]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Did Bray play tougher competition in college? Sure

His supporting cast was also light years ahead of Glennon's.

Both of Bray's Top 2 receivers are going to be taken in the Top 60 come April, none of Glennon's targets even have a future in this league.

And despite Bray playing with a stellar supporting cast, he never really progressed or took Tennessee even close to where they should've been considering their talent level.

I don't think that is a very fair criticism. I watched a couple of UT games this year to scout Bray. UT's shortcomings this year had more to do with the defense than anything else.

Bray has consistency issues, but the kid can play.

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

True, but look at Nick Foles who Philly just drafted last year.

6'6 245

Foles can actually jet if need be. Chip Kelly recruited him but Foles opted for Arizona

Glennon makes Brady look like Cunningham

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

Man you must be related to this guy or something. He is not nearly the player you think he is and was never considered so while he was playing at NC State.

No worries, I took a lot of crap on this board too when I said Sanchez was a bad QB long before just about anyone here...

Got so bad, people would just say I was a hater and knew nothing...

But that's par for the course, same thing happened when I said Gholston would flop, or when I said Ray Rice would be the best running back in his class...

Or that Matt Ryan, who was much ridiculed here like Glennon, would be a good QB...

I'm used to being told I don't know what I'm talking about by the knowledgable fans here...

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

LOL kiss of death

Dilfer also said before this year that Sanchez's mechanics were broken and couldn't be fixed... Plus whether you agree or disagree with him, you cant deny that he watches a ton of tape.

Probably so all of his inaccurate passes can hit the ground quickly for a 3 and out and we won't have to worry about him killing us with mistakes. Nothing about Glennon's game suggests he will succeed in a quick hit offense... nothing

and yet still more accurate than the extremely accurate Rusell Wilson in the same offense


He still is unathletic. There's more to him than just adding weight. He's like Napoleon Dynamite in football pads

Give him a clean pocket and he can make all the throws, which is more than we have right now

Ah yes,a kid who was projected to be a 6th round pick, then a first round pick, then took a nose dive after his bowl game and the senior bowl... total through the roof potential

Massive nose dive? Lol... How so? do you think he makes it past round 2?

You realize Glennon is a mediocre quarterback that we'd probably have to invest 2-3 years in right?

Not as much of a project as you think. His upside makes it worth the wait and is the reason he gets drafted early.

What QB do you like in this draft?

[legler82]

Colby Cameron is a projected late round/UDFA QB prospect that in the right system, which I believe is the WCO, is capable of becoming this year's Brady or Romo.

When you look at highlights of Quinton Patton, you can't help but notice the accuracy of the Cameron. Then when you look up his stats, you can't help but to wonder why he's considered a late round prospect. The guy threw for over 4,000 yards at nearly 8 YPA, so he was not dinking and dunking. Despite putting the ball up 500+ times, he threw a whopping just 5 INTs compared to his 31 TDs. He broke the NCAA records for most consecutive pass attempts without an interception in a season (428), previously by Russell Wilson, and in a career (444). All this while completing just under 70% of his passes. The guy is athletic, intelligent, decisive, can read defenses and has a quick release, good feet, a leader and clutch. The knocks on him are size, arm strength, level of competition and scheme; I address each one below.

Size - He measured in at a hair over 6-2 at the East West Shrine Game. Height is significant cause you can add on weight but not height. I believe not breaking that 6-2 is huge since anything below that threshold greatly diminishes your opportunities to be a starting NFL QB. He weighed in at 210, though
not ideal, there is room to add on more weight. For the sake of comparison, he's 1/8 of an inch taller than Tyler Wilson and 8 pounds lighter.

Arm strength - His arm does not wow you on tape but reports out of the East West Shrine Game practice week was that scouts were surprised by his compact delivery, zip and ball velocity. He's going to be one of the "throwing quarterbacks" at the Combine this year so he'll have plenty of chances to dispel any concerns about his arm in from of all the scouts.

Level of Competition - When LA Tech played ridiculous game against the SEC's Texas A&M, all the highlights were of Quinton Patton and Johnny Football but Cameron tore up A&M's 14th ranked defense. He went 44 for 58 (75.9% CMP) for 450 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INTs. Hate to pick on Tyler Wilson again but against the same defense, Wilson went 29 for 59 (49.2% CMP) for 373 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs.

Scheme - I don't think not running a "pro" offense is as much of a hindrance as it use to be since the line between college and pro-style offenses has been blurred with the new wave of QBs coming in. While Tech's offense is more unconventional than most (the center calls in the plays and not the QB), I think it's helped Cameron become better than most at reading coverages and making the proper adjustments.

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by legler82

Colby Cameron is a projected late round/UDFA QB prospect that in the right system, which I believe is the WCO, is capable of becoming this year's Brady or Romo.

When you look at highlights of Quinton Patton, you can't help but notice the accuracy of the Cameron. Then when you look up his stats, you can't help but to wonder why he's considered a late round prospect. The guy threw for over 4,000 yards at nearly 8 YPA, so he was not dinking and dunking. Despite putting the ball up 500+ times, he threw a whopping just 5 INTs compared to his 31 TDs. He broke the NCAA records for most consecutive pass attempts without an interception in a season (428), previously by Russell Wilson, and in a career (444). All this while completing just under 70% of his passes. The guy is athletic, intelligent, decisive, can read defenses and has a quick release, good feet, a leader and clutch. The knocks on him are size, arm strength, level of competition and scheme; I address each one below.

Size - He measured in at a hair over 6-2 at the East West Shrine Game. Height is significant cause you can add on weight but not height. I believe not breaking that 6-2 is huge since anything below that threshold greatly diminishes your opportunities to be a starting NFL QB. He weighed in at 210, though
not ideal, there is room to add on more weight. For the sake of comparison, he's 1/8 of an inch taller than Tyler Wilson and 8 pounds lighter.

Arm strength - His arm does not wow you on tape but reports out of the East West Shrine Game practice week was that scouts were surprised by his compact delivery, zip and ball velocity. He's going to be one of the "throwing quarterbacks" at the Combine this year so he'll have plenty of chances to dispel any concerns about his arm in from of all the scouts.

Level of Competition - When LA Tech played ridiculous game against the SEC's Texas A&M, all the highlights were of Quinton Patton and Johnny Football but Cameron tore up A&M's 14th ranked defense. He went 44 for 58 (75.9% CMP) for 450 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INTs. Hate to pick on Tyler Wilson again but against the same defense, Wilson went 29 for 59 (49.2% CMP) for 373 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs.

Scheme - I don't think not running a "pro" offense is as much of a hindrance as it use to be since the line between college and pro-style offenses has been blurred with the new wave of QBs coming in. While Tech's offense is more unconventional than most (the center calls in the plays and not the QB), I think it's helped Cameron become better than most at reading coverages and making the proper adjustments.

Admittedly, I've never watched him play, but he sounds like Colt Brennan.

Just because these guys put up eye popping numbers in college doesn't mean they'll transition well to the NFL.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

No worries, I took a lot of crap on this board too when I said Sanchez was a bad QB long before just about anyone here...

Got so bad, people would just say I was a hater and knew nothing...

But that's par for the course, same thing happened when I said Gholston would flop, or when I said Ray Rice would be the best running back in his class...

Or that Matt Ryan, who was much ridiculed here like Glennon, would be a good QB...

I'm used to being told I don't know what I'm talking about by the knowledgable fans here...

Matt Ryan had a crummy BC program almost all the way to #1 in the country. It's blasphemy to mention Glennon in the same breath as him. Glennon couldn't even prevent his team from getting crushed by Vandy

I hated the Sanchez pick too, but he was a better prospect than Glennon, that's for sure

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

Matt Ryan had a crummy BC program almost all the way to #1 in the country. It's blasphemy to mention Glennon in the same breath as him. Glennon couldn't even prevent his team from getting crushed by Vandy

I hated the Sanchez pick too, but he was a better prospect than Glennon, that's for sure

Matt Ryan also had a RB who had twice the production - over 1700 yards from scrimmage and a defense that only allowed over 30 points 2 times vs 7 times for NC State.

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

What QB do you like in this draft?

None of them really. We'd be in a hole for at least 3 years with a terrible quarterback that this new front office would almost certainly be inclined to start and tout to save face.

But if you put a gun to my head, and told me to pick a quarterback to at least ride the bench for a year in the 3rd or 4th round, on pure athleticism alone it would have to be EJ Manuel. And that opinion was formulated before the senior bowl in case you want to throw that garbage out there too.

But even with Manuel I'm less than enthralled with this years quarterback class and would rather eat glass

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

No worries, I took a lot of crap on this board too when I said Sanchez was a bad QB long before just about anyone here...

Got so bad, people would just say I was a hater and knew nothing...

But that's par for the course, same thing happened when I said Gholston would flop, or when I said Ray Rice would be the best running back in his class...

Or that Matt Ryan, who was much ridiculed here like Glennon, would be a good QB...

I'm used to being told I don't know what I'm talking about by the knowledgable fans here...

Captain check-down still shouldn't even be considered top 10 in the league...

[Untouchable]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

Captain check-down still shouldn't even be considered top 15 in the league...

Matt Ryan isn't a Top 15 QB?

LOL

Okay

[FreshBaked 24 7]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Matt Ryan isn't a Top 15 QB?

LOL

Okay

We'll see how his numbers look when he doesn't have Gonzalez to check it down to. Plays scared and will, by the end of his career, be considered a worse playoff QB than Manning

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by FreshBaked 24 7

We'll see how his numbers look when he doesn't have Gonzalez to check it down to. Plays scared and will, by the end of his career, be considered a worse playoff QB than Manning

Yes, he looked plenty scared when in the biggest (playoff) game of his career against the #2 defense in the league, he completed 71.4% for 396 yards, 3 tds and had a 114 QBR.

You couldn’t find an NFL analyst who wouldn’t put Ryan (4700 yards, 68.6% and 32 tds) in the top 10.

[Dreamers]

Originally Posted by dustykeller

The ideal scenario is not drafting any of the QBs out of this class, and suffering with Sanchez for 1 more season.

Our franchise QB is waiting to be drafted in 2014.

I'd rather one from this class it looks stronger.

[Dreamers]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

Matt Ryan isn't a Top 15 QB?

LOL

Okay

Ryan is at very least better the Romo. Very much top 15.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

Matt Ryan also had a RB who had twice the production - over 1700 yards from scrimmage and a defense that only allowed over 30 points 2 times vs 7 times for NC State.

He was also firmly in the Heisman discussion his entire senior year. He was recognized as one of the premier QBs in the country, maybe even the best. Glennon and Heisman were like oil and water, never even a consideration. Nobody thought he was the best QB, heck, nobody even thought he was the best QB in the weak ACC.

Look, if the Jets absolutely love him as a prospect and want to take him in the 2nd round, I could live with it, but I'll really go off the deep end if they waste the #9 pick on this guy. I'm not sure he would beat out Sanchez in a camp competition either, he's just as mistake prone and less mobile. I personally think Rex would probably play Sanchez to start the season if we took Glennon in the 2nd round.

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by Dreamers

I'd rather one from this class it looks stronger.

Agree.

Barkley (who was thought to be can’t miss) was a better prospect coming into his Senior year vs. Bridgewater and Manziel going into their respective Junior and Sophomore seasons…

And who’s to say they even come out in 2014?

The Jets are 100% drafting a QB this year, they are scouting them like crazy... That's why it's so funny to see all these mocks with no QB selected.
The only question is the round it happens.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

Agree.

Barkley (who was thought to be can’t miss) was a better prospect coming into his Senior year vs. Bridgewater and Manziel going into their respective Junior and Sophomore seasons…

And who’s to say they even come out in 2014?

The Jets are 100% drafting a QB this year, they are scouting them like crazy... That's why it's so funny to see all these mocks with no QB selected.
The only question is the round it happens.

Peter King wrote in MMQB that scouts are telling him this is the weakest QB class since 1997 (Jim Druckenmiller was first QB selected in late 20s that year). I have a hard time believing the 2014 class will be viewed in that manner. Barkley never had elite physical tools (height, arm, mobility) regardless of what scouts thought of him heading into last season. Regardless of what you might think could happen to guys like Bridgewater and Manziel in the next season, in my opinion they clearly have better physical tools than Barkley whose biggest positive was being polished and playing in a pro style offense.

I hope we do take a QB, but just based on what I saw from these guys last year in college, I don't think any of them would start for us day 1 unless we landed Smith at #9.

[Monsterxman]

Originally Posted by SlickBri481

He was also firmly in the Heisman discussion his entire senior year. He was recognized as one of the premier QBs in the country, maybe even the best. Glennon and Heisman were like oil and water, never even a consideration. Nobody thought he was the best QB, heck, nobody even thought he was the best QB in the weak ACC.

Look, if the Jets absolutely love him as a prospect and want to take him in the 2nd round, I could live with it, but I'll really go off the deep end if they waste the #9 pick on this guy. I'm not sure he would beat out Sanchez in a camp competition either, he's just as mistake prone and less mobile. I personally think Rex would probably play Sanchez to start the season if we took Glennon in the 2nd round.

Are you really using the Heisman as a measuring stick to judge NFL QB ability?

I’d agree round 2 is where I’d take a chance on Glennon based on what we know right now and where teams have this crop of QB’s going.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

Are you really using the Heisman as a measuring stick to judge NFL QB ability?

I’d agree round 2 is where I’d take a chance on Glennon based on what we know right now and where teams have this crop of QB’s going.

Using it to show that Ryan during his college career was viewed as a completely different level of player than Glennon was. You're the one who initially compared them. Don't overlook the spotlight v. obscurity intangible angle either. Ryan was used to the national spotlight on him and playing in big games. Glennon played in complete obscurity and there is no way to predict how he would handle the NY market and a huge spotlight on him. Otherguys have overcome that though, Flacco and Cutler being good examples. I would say Eli too because his college team wasn't very good, but you can't be in obscurity when you are Peyton's little brother.